What Matters at the End of Life?

In Good Faith: An Interview with Jewels Olsen

In Episode 222 of IGF, Steve speaks with Jewels Olsen, a chaplain at Applegate Home and Hospice in Utah, where she has a passion for supporting those nearing the end-of-life transition. She is familiar with many traditions and practices and provides spiritual care for a wide variety of people.

Some of them are like: "I don't need a chaplain. I don't want to talk about that stuff." Or others are delighted because sometimes their faith is different than their family's, and they want to explore and articulate in front of their family members. One person in particular came to mind that her whole family was of one faith tradition, and she had no faith in a higher being at all.

So, when I asked her: "what do you think?" She'd been all over the world. "What do you feel about your next adventure?" She looked at me like I was being cruel, and I'm like: "no, I mean the big adventure." And she said: "Oh, it's going to be great. I'm just going to dissolve into the universe." And the whole family got to hear that. And they got to hold a space for her where she was comfortable and honor her beliefs.

That's beautiful, and for her that was very meaningful. What does it take to separate your own spiritual views, because you have them, from other people, as you've certified as an interfaith chaplain to be able to support people. What kind of mindset do you have when you're working with people of varying beliefs?

This is something they taught us in clinical pastoral training. You bring a space, and you are not in the driver's seat. Your beliefs don't matter. They don't count. You're there to just let them fill that space; you're creating the safe space where they can say: "this is what I think, this is what I feel." And then you're safe enough for them to question what they have thought and felt all their lives.

Is it different when you have a moment alone with someone rather than when their family's gathered?

Very different, very different. In front of the family, they usually say the things that the family wants to hear. They're like people pleasers and they're saying what mama wants to hear or whatever, you know. But when we're alone, someone that's lived a really colorful life will say: "can you teach me how to pray? I need to figure out how to get good with God before I'm in front of Him."

They ask those important things, like we talk about Jesus and that He paid for our sins, and it's going to be just fine. You've done your best. And then the man will say: "but is it good enough?" So, they say things differently when they're alone.

I guess we're all individual because of our individual beliefs and life experiences, but are there commonalities in spiritual questions or experiences, as you're with people going through the dying process?

Yes. There's those that believe in Jesus, and there's those that believe in a God.

A sweet Muslim lady said: "we all believe in God, we just worship Him differently." And I loved that inclusion. And then there's those that, they know something's going on in the universe or whatever. I don't know that I've ever met anybody that doesn't believe at least that.

And do you see a transition from fear to acceptance?

Yes. And the further along they are in their process of their body dying, the more they can talk about: "oh, this is happening." And so, in the beginning, they're just in fear, and denial, and bargaining, and really: "is there nothing else we can do?" But then as it gets closer, they focus on what's real and what matters. What matters is that they loved and were loved.

I love hearing your stories. I wonder if you could tell me about a few different people that have stuck in your mind, in your heart.

There was a sweet little man, and he was super hard of hearing, and so every time I came, we would just yell, really loud. And then he could hear us.

And his cute little granddaughters loved to sing, so we'd sing little songs for him. And they'd dance around, and it was just great. As his disease progressed, he couldn't get out of the bed. The family told me that when he passed, he hadn't walked for weeks. But he stood up, got out of his bed, walked to the end of the bed, with his arms outstretched, then turned around, went and got back in the bed, took three breaths, and then he was gone.

And so, in my brain, I'm like: oh, somebody came for him. And he went and they said: "no, no, no, you can't take your body."

"You can put it back in the bed."

And it was so peaceful and sweet.

So, you're trained in how to ask people what they might be worried about, or really to let them kind of be in the steering wheel. What do you suggest for families? Cause there's so much emotion.

Is there anything unsaid? We call it "being current." So, are you "current" with your relationships? Are there things that are in the past that you haven't talked about? There are elephants in the room, but you're not going there. Well, this is the time. So, I encourage them to talk about it and get their relationships "current." I encourage them to talk about their funeral, and plan out as much as they want to.

And one woman said: "I haven't seen my daughter in four years." And I encouraged her to call her daughter and tell her, I'm on hospice. I'd love to see you. And she says: "Oh yeah, not doing that." And about 10 minutes later though, she said: "give me my phone." And she did. And the daughter didn't pick up. She left a message.

But the next day, at 3:30, the daughter came. And they got to talk. It wasn't warm and fuzzy, but they got to talk. And she got to have that peace, and she passed at one in the morning that night. So, that's precious.

You have one foot in each realm. This is a job. You're trained for it. But you also have this spiritual realm. What has been your spiritual preparation for what you do now, whether you knew you were being prepared for it or not?

This is an interesting answer, but it's the truth. I had a super hard time when my mom passed. I didn't function. I didn't get out of bed for two months. I was just not in the world. I was angry and I didn't pray. And finally, after two months, I knelt down and said what I call an "angry prayer." And I said: "God, if there is a God, I don't know if what I've been taught all my life is true or if it's just a bunch of brainwashing. I know that my mom is dead. I don't know if we'll ever be together again. I have to know if I'll see my mom again."

And then like a wave of a warm waterfall just washed over me, and the feeling I felt was, she's here. There is a next life and you will be together again, and that changed me.

But I didn't have a chaplain. And we offer our services for a whole year after for those that are left because it's important to have somebody, and sometimes it's great to have somebody that's not family to work through those questions with.

Just yesterday, I met with a man from Iran, and he doesn't believe in a higher power and believes that it's the end. So, that bereavement visit was interesting because basically we just talked about his dad was a good man, and he was a judge, and that he always judged his own actions. And so, we talked about how good his dad was, but he didn't have any hope of anything after.

They do grieve for forty days and then have a ceremony. And then a year later, then they have one more ceremony, but that was it. And when I said to him that our company makes a teddy bear, that's about a foot tall out of his daddy's clothing, would he like that? He got so emotional, and he said: "I would love that."

I'm really pleased to hear about this care for the family members after the passing of the loved one. When you're working with people, do they have visitors or people that they have known earlier in their life that come to them?

Oh, yes. The family members don't believe it's real. So, we have to kind of educate and say: "they have one foot here and one foot over there."

So, often I'll walk into a home, and you can tell that the spirit is thick and the veil is thin.

And one sweet lady kept looking up at the ceiling and she said: "who are all those people?" And the daughter said: "she's been doing that for days." And I'm like: "it's not the medication. It is not a hallucination. This is very real for her."

Another lady, she's, she's not verbal and has had handicaps her whole life, and was very near the end, and I came and she was in her hospital bed and she kept pointing. And her sister says, "She thinks mom's sitting there." I said, "Well, mom is sitting there. Yes, she's been gone for years, but I need you to know that that's real."

And then a week later, I came and she pointed again. And, and yeah, mom was still sitting there. And a couple of days later she passed, but her mama came and got her.

I read about someone who, they didn't have a faith in a god, but you sang "What a Wonderful World." Tell me that story.

This man did not have faith in a higher power, and it was an initial visit, and they were speaking a language I didn't understand. And I sang, "What a Wonderful World." And when we finished, he just stared at me the whole time. We went out into the living room, and he'd said something to his daughter-in-law, and I said, "What did he say?" And she said, "He said you sang him a prayer." So, he felt the love, and he could tell it was about something holy: the world.

So, do you feel like you have become more attuned to those kind of spiritual feelings, as you've walked through this process and been in the presence of this so many times?

Absolutely. Being a chaplain has changed me so much. Yes, I'm more aware of spiritual things. I'm more open to them. I love hearing from people that have different faith traditions explain to me in their words, what's going on.

They're saying, oh, and this and this. And I'm like, Oh, they're saying the exact same thing I think and feel, just in their words. I'm less judgmental and more accepting. Things aren't black and white. Like when I was younger, I thought: "it's this or this." No! There's so much gray and so much good in every person and every home.

I just feel so honored. Some homes have cockroaches crawling all over them. Does he still need us? Absolutely! Some, it's a hoarder situation and we can barely get to the patient. They still need us. They are a child of God, and we get to hold that space. Some places are gorgeous, immaculate, and they're focused on their things, not the people they're leaving behind.

So, whatever the situation, I have learned so much about focusing on what's important.

On the In Good Faith podcast, host Steven Kapp Perry aims to build bridges of understanding between religions. In talking with believers of different faiths, he highlights personal experience and commonalities across traditions.

This transcript has been edited for clarity and length. Listen to the full episode, “Ep 222: What do we experience at the end of life?” at https://bit.ly/4iw9H4l

Art by Matthias Strom.